Monday, August 06, 2007

I hate Will Rogers

Or at least that "I belong to no organized political party" line because it is so damned accurate.

Question #1 for the Democratic leadership: You have a rogue administration that has shamelessly broken statutory law and flouted constitutional guarantees of privacy and personal security in the name of "terrorism." Why on earth do you give him MORE power?????


Life Hiker said...

Don't expect me to believe that the democrats in leadership positions are stupid. Politics is all about winning, and they know they cannot win right now. They are simply fighting a delaying action in preparation for 2008's election.

Sorry to say, a large number of Americans are fearful of terrorism and foreigners (Mexicans and Muslims, for them). The republicans know that they can play on these fears if the democrats do anything that can be perceived as decreasing security.
So, for elected democrats, the waiting game is the only game, and sniping is as much warfare as they can get away with for now.

I understand the frustration and the ranting - I'm frustrated, too. But let's not jump off the cliff when victory is not far away.

schmidlap said...

Sorry, Life Hiker. Wrong answer.

Bottom line is they just voted to let the Attorney General decide which Americans can be wiretapped without court orders.

That's wrong. Voting for it is reprehensible. And it's the responsibility of politicians to lead, and if necessary, educate their stupid redneck constituency (and apparently, you, too) when appropriate.

Caving to this sort of fear mongering is weak and stupid, and if you support it, then so are you. If that's how you like your politicians, you deserve exactly what you get.

Enjoy that little clicking sound on your next phone call.

I'm Not Ned said...

I agree with Schmidlap.

If they don't have the votes to stop the bill then they should have tabled it. The Repubes don't have the votes to force it to the floor so it would sit in limbo.

This is quite an outrage after what they've seen from the AG and his lack of concern for the rules of law.

There are not even any oversight provisions!

Life Hiker said...

Democrats! It's hard to be one because so many of them are too damn idealistic. They'd rather go down fighting than win by being smart. But God bless them for their good intentions.

Sad to say, the best thing for democrats is for Bush and the 2008 republican candidates to be stuck with this war that they can't win. This will be the issue that wins the presidency and many house and senate seats for the democrats if they don't blow it.

If you think you can educate the average American about the 4th amendment, you are nuts. The argument for stopping terrorists will win every time. Dreamers!

schmidlap said...

Win by being smart? And that means assuming Americans are stupid? Which way do you want it? You can't have it both.

Here, I'll pick a side for you. If it's your position that the 4th amendment is too complicated to keep, it's not the populace that's stupid.

Life Hiker said...

Americans, to be kind, are not stupid, they are just uninformed and they are scared silly of terrorism. They turn to tough guys (even draft-dodging warhawk tough-talking guys) to save them. Just look at the demographics of Bush 2004 voters before you disagree.

I believe the 4th amendment is important enough to keep, but I also believe that a very large percentage of Americans couldn't tell you what it is, nor would they hesitate to sacrifice it if someone in power said they would perhaps die if they didn't.

It's the wrong issue for democrats to fall on their sword for, which is just what would have happened if they passed a bill that Bush would have vetoed.

schmidlap said...

Again, you try to have it both ways.

This bill renders the 4th amendment irrelevant. A vote in favor of it is ipso facto a rejection of the 4th amendment. For any reason: your alleged political expediency included.

Tell me, what other parts of the Constitution do you have so little respect for you that you would suggest we stop worrying about if the Republicans are potentially able to use it as an anti-terror wedge?

Should we ditch the first amendment? Republicans can argue that liberal blogs embolden teh terrorists! Oh no!

What about the 3rd? Chimpy might need to station troops in our homes to keep us safe! Booga booga!

Don't forget the 22nd. They could argue that only GWB can keep us safe, and that he needs to stay in office. Imagine the votes we might lose if we were to say otherwise.

Do you have any principles, any at all, that you would not sacrifice for fear of a mean TV commercial? Good God, is that how cheaply you are bought? Do you value your democracy at all?

Get off your knees. Grow some balls. You're as scared of the Republicans as they are of the brown people. They aren't that smart, and the country isn't that stupid, nor as scared as you think (except the 25% who can't be reached anyway, and fuck them).

This is not about falling on swords or political expediency. Sometimes, right is just right and wrong is just wrong and your chickenshit triangulation doesn't figure in. Glad we know where you stand when the fight gets hard. Thanks for nothing.

schmidlap said...

And by the way, get a hold of your facts: it's not about passing a bill that he'd veto. They didn't have to pass one at all. That's the most infuriating part of all this.

Life Hiker said...

I appreciate your comments. All I have to say is that if the democrats win the next election decisively, we don't have to worry about any of this because they'll fix it.

You'd prefer to make your point and lose the election. Typical radical idiots (well meaning but stupid).

jimbow8 said...

schmidlap: Should we ditch the first amendment?
What about the 3rd?
Don't forget the 22nd.

Just don't touch the 2nd!!!!! Then they'll be pissed.

When did FISA become the ideal to which we aspire? FISA itself it (arguably) unconstitutional, and now we can't even acheive that.

life hiker: Americans, to be kind, are not stupid, ...
I believe the 4th amendment is important enough to keep, but I also believe that a very large percentage of Americans couldn't tell you what it is, nor would they hesitate to sacrifice it if someone in power said they would perhaps die if they didn't.

If that's the case .... then they ARE stupid!