Wednesday, July 12, 2006
Following Up
A few weeks ago, Barack Obama gave a speech which incensed a number of left-wing bloggers. He was talking about religion and politics, and he was accused of mouthing GOP talking points when he discussed how some liberal folk get very turned off by religion, and that the Democratic party should reach out to more religious voters. I'm a little urpy with his stance on separation of church and state, but that's probably because I'm an absolutist about it, and he's a much more religious person than I am. However, when I read the text of the speech, I didn't get the sense that he was hammering the Democrats, but that he was trying to open a new line of conversation to the myriad people who are religious, but who aren't James Dobson. Many of those people have values which are more properly aligned with the Democrats than the Republicans, but since the GOP has managed to get the idea that they're the faithful, and we're the athiestic devils, accepted, we lose those votes without even trying. Here's an interview with Obama where he reflects on the speech, and talks in a little more depth about the ideas he was trying to get across. I think it's summed up pretty well by Obama's press secretary, who said "If we're not talking to these people, Focus on the Family will."
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8 comments:
You're absolutely right. The GOP has somehow associated themselves with Christianity, righteousness and faithfulness - even though they are, in my opinion, the farthest from any of those three. I am not a Christian, but I do know that a large portion of this country is. What I've found is that, for the most part, people adhere to it more out of fear of the unknown than actual faith in what they claim to believe. I also feel that you're right about most Christian (religious) Americans have more in common with the Democratic party than is perceived - simply because of what I said about people's reason for being Christian. They don't believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. They don't believe in its Puritan, clean-cut, zero-tolerance for sin philosophies. I think most Americans feel that life isn't that black and white.
Thanks for the comment, David.
It took the Republicans decades to co-opt religion but only one day to steal patriotism. The Dems have a long row to hoe and they need get busy.
They need to address what true liberty and freedom are. Illegal wiretaps? Kidnapping foreign nationals? Detaining people indefinately without warrant or charges? Torture? Illegal war contracts for mercenaries?
Once they open the eyes of Americans to see the derailed train wreck we are, then they can ask one simple question... What would Jesus do?
I like Obama, but he needs to keep something in mind. If he wants to change the fundamental shape of the Democratic party to be much more friendly to religious people (i.e., by shamelessly pandering to them), he will probably chase away as many or more than he will attract.
Like me. I'm only hanging on as a big-D Democrat by a very fine thread right now. If he wants to turn the party into a bible study, he can blow a goodbye kiss at my ass as it walks out the door forever.
Religion has NO PLACE in politics whatsoever. Period, paragraph, end of fucking story.
Schmidlap, I want to agree with you, but I find that I can't draw that line quite that clearly, for a practical reason. If a candidate stood up there, and said what you did, he or she would lose every election they'd ever enter. Like it or not, those of us who don't subscribe to organized religions are a minority, and those who do tend to find the idea of someone hostile towards religion repulsive. Even the most liberal, tolerant religious people I know would suggest that a truly religious person could not separate their faith from their politics. They can choose not to impose their faith on others in political decisions, but they would say that it guides their actions, morals, etc. Unfortunately, when most people heat that someone isn't religious or thinks it has no place in their lives, they hear "immoral" and not "law abiding".
I also disagree with your assumption that he'll lose votes doing this. Face it, come election day, most of us would sit there and think "Do I vote for Obama, who injects more religion than I want into politics, but still seems to have a functioning brain, or let whoever Dick Cheney chooses as his successor take over?" We're not moderates here, and speeches targeted at them tend to piss me off too. On the other hand, if you read the original speech he gave, it wasn't as bad as most made it out to be.
I didn't say that religious people can't be good Democrats, or that people's politics shouldn't be influenced by their personal religious beliefs. Everything we do, all of us, is influenced by our personal beliefs, religious, mystical, or otherwise. The issue to me is overtly bringing those beliefs into policy.
And I'm not running for office, and I know no "out" atheist ever could. I get all that, believe me. I've had people tell me to my face that I must be amoral since I'm an atheist. I've heard it all. Atheists are truly the last group in America it is 100% OK to hate openly. That doesn't bother me; it emboldens and energizes me, frankly.
But that's not really my point. Agree with me or don't, follow me or don't, but I stand 100% by my statement. If/when we get to the point where Democrats start regularly advocating prayer in school, the Ten Commandments in the courthouse, and the like, I'm out and I'm out for good. So they'd lose at least one vote. I can and will stay home and watch. This is the issue where I draw my bright, bold, uncrossable line; as you said, I'm not a moderate, and when it comes to this issue, I'm not particularly practical either.
I don't see Obama endorsing prayer in schools or religious based policies. I believe he's simple telling the Dems that they need to show that they are compasionate Christians so the rest of America can see they have a choice between evil "christians" and real people. Same policy, better publicity.
"The Dems need to show that they are compassionate Christians"?
So no Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists allowed in your Dem party, anonymous?
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